Today’s guest, we have Bastian Boskamp, founder of V innovation. I always look at everything in life. How could you build a product out of this that helps people but also monetize it? They are constantly trying to figure out how to adapt into this new environment, and a lot of them are suffering. There are two types of businesses, one that are very afraid of AI, and the other one is that really, really wants to use AI for everything. Identify your biggest pain points and see if that’s something where AI. If you can use AI and train an LLM, as in a large language model with a data set that’s specific to your company, you can basically help get knowledge from every system in your business, but you still need experts to use AI more as an assistant, so to speak, right? How do younger people probably prepare themselves for the market? A just understand things change every single second day. If you’re able to pivot, you think differently. Because every problem in life and in business, you need to pivot in order to stay successful. The second part of it is AI is only as creative as we feed it. Bringing these different views and that together is creativity. I split my prompts into three different components. One is like the pre work where I give it background information like we ask AI a lot of questions, but I always say, hey, what did you understand? What questions would you need to ask? Then I do the implementation prompt itself and now implement it. Make sure you follow XYZ rules. You have an incredible background in product, and I guess that intersection of product and AI has become a big part of your life now. Um, do you mind just like giving us a 30s on your role as a product, uh, expertise and how you have, I guess, been working in this space over the last couple of years and the importance and the skill set you can bring to this conversation. Sure. Um, I guess I always look at everything in life. How could you build a product out of this that helps people but also monetize it? Yep. And that has always been my view and anything. Right. Um, we can dive into this later, but for sure, I’ve built surf wrecks just because I wanted to see if I can be successful building physical products. I have a software engineering background, and anything I look at is basic from that product lens. And there’s there’s a few industries that really interest me, but everything is more or less about how can new technologies help? How can you know new things make make you life better, or change things in product space? Build more products have been early on in blockchain, worked in that space for a while before everyone actually knew what it was. Yeah. Uh, just because it’s I think it’s an incredible technology can do a lot. And with AI, it’s the same. I’ve been. in there early on and I’ve gone gone through that journey of GPT. Why don’t you follow my instructions to like. It’s still kind of doing that though, actually. Yeah. But you know, you learn along the way of like, how do you prompt, how do you use things? And with that, I realized that AI is an incredible tool for especially products and that kind of. Like early stage of like trying to find market traction, MVP working with different people in. An environment to express what you’re trying to build because product is is that link between. Your customer service, your tech team, your customer. You know, the C-suite, everything. And you need to speak different languages to explain it in ways to different stakeholders and groups. Um, and that generally means you need to be very good at changing context and focus in that sense. But also you constantly try and write things down and explain them, but AI helps to speed those things up that are just repetitive tasks and also kind of help you to refine it in a way that it’s more understandable. WIP coding even though the word itself I’m not sure if I really like it is. It’s really cool where you use front ends like V0 or other tools to visualize what you’re trying to express, what you’re trying to do. MVP coding is so much more advanced now. I built probably like a clickable prototype every two or three weeks. Not necessarily because I need to, but I’m also interested in it. And that is where I really comes in and helps me from a product perspective, from a creativity point of view, and speeding things up so that I can focus on the things where I really need to spend time. That’s awesome. Make sure it’s your, um. What’s interesting there is that you’ve come from that background of being an engineer. So actually being on the tools and developing stuff. Um, often you see a lot of product people transitioning from, I guess, the design or UX backgrounds and um, or just going straight into product in itself. Why did you transition from, I guess, tech development into in a product, and how have you found that transition? Yeah, I think there are two things to it. I started playing computer games, you know, you Counter-Strike. Oh, yes. Whatever. We can have a huge conversation about that. That’s awesome. And back then, I mean, most people our age might understand it, but otherwise all of a sudden you have your blue screen. Something doesn’t work, right. And you need it to build your own computer. How do you connect a graphics card? All that stuff. And it started making me want. Or it made me want to understand more how the tech works. Yeah. Um, on top of this, I started a website using Dreamweaver with my neighbor trying to build inpaint emojis so that you could put them into emails. We stopped this because who would use emojis in emails? Right. This is this is like years and years ago. Um, yeah. So basically, I always try to understand how things work. And when it came to, what do I going to do with my life? I was thinking of studying art. I’m not an artist at all, so I would have been a huge failure. Or studying software engineering, and I studied software engineering, and that got me into development, which I’ve done only a few years. But what I realized is rather than just coding, not just coding, but coding, I wanted to be the one that’s in charge and responsible for the good and the bad. Yeah. And we all know that product people usually blame when things go wrong or that don’t get praised. I’ve never done that. I don’t know what you’re talking about. No, but this is this is basically the journey of, like, going into product. Because why choosing between art and software engineering. Maybe there’s still that creativity in me and. Yeah. yeah, just wanting to be responsible to build something cool that elevates a product that that gives you that, you know, USP in the market. Um, and that evolves into more than just product management but like strategy. So I do a bit of consulting, um, product strategy transformation for like small and medium businesses to look at things from a different angle. And what’s interesting also just to to finish this up is the market seems to come around from product. People need to be creative, need to have a BA background, need to have a design background, to actually need product. People that need to be technical. And I while if you want me to code something right now without AI, it’s probably going to break. And it’s taken years. But I can understand code and I can talk to tech people equally as well as to, you know, the business side and understand this and then bring those two things together. That was the critical part that you mentioned. There is that the ability to understand what is actually happening from the development standpoint, you get a lot of product people who have they’ve had product backgrounds. They’re great at the strategy side of things. But when it comes to the development building, there’s a huge disconnect. The why of what is going on is completely missing. Um, I myself am in a similar boat while not being on the tools. I was a producer and product manager. Like actually, like I helped. I was the guy who managed all the projects back in the day. So while I don’t have the technical skill that you have, I do have a good understanding of how that core development process is working, what is going on, why we’re using certain codes for certain reasons, and that does help with that intersection of how you deal with stakeholders, how your product becomes more robust when it goes into market, um, which is which is a great skill to have. So that’s awesome. Yeah. And just to add here, I think that also helps me to kind of I’m not an expert, but I understand how AI takes how it thinks. Yeah. Because you talk to AI or I try and talk to AI as I would talk to a computer. More technical. I structure my prompts. I structure everything from a technical point of view, rather than just talking like a human. And it makes a huge difference in the results. And that’s the same when when you talk with engineers, if you say, I want a product so that people can record their email address, right. It’s different. If you were to say, we want to build a email capture field, but we’re going to have ten thousand users coming to this website every day. What does that mean for performance? What does that mean for the underlying infrastructure? What does that mean for privacy and security? So you can frame these things a bit different. And that technical knowledge. Apply this to AI. Even though coding you don’t need to know tech. I still believe it’s beneficial to know those things because you can usually prompt more specific and get better results in general. Usually it’s that when you start prompt, it’s even going to the extent of what does good not look like. You know, when you’re trying to give it that guidance and that insight, as well as all the technical know how, and we’ll dive into a lot of prompt engineering stuff in a moment. I’m pretty excited to talk to you about that. Um, along your journey, you’ve transitioned through a lot of different, uh, I guess, uh, industries and sectors. Tell me about your, um, your stopping point when it came to the the the surfboard, uh, stuff. So, yeah, that’s an interesting one. So I used to when I came to Australia eleven, twelve years ago. Eleven years ago, I started surfing and living in a shared house. All the surfboards were everywhere. It’s strange, as an Australian, I just, I, I just cannot surf. Oh, I don’t I’m fearful. I’m fearful of it. I just I don’t want to go in the water. I just like, ah yeah, it’s fun, but I’m not claiming to be able to. Yeah, yeah, of course I’m probably the kook that’s on that surfboard annoying everyone else. But anyway, so I looked at this right? And they’re like, oh, I want to be able to kind of like store my surfboards. But they’re not just flying on the garage floor and like getting dinged and stuff like that. And I looked into basically products that were out there and There was one specific product from the US to have, like a surfboard rack to store your surfboards that was beautifully designed, but it cost like, I think eight thousand nine hundred Australian dollars, like we’re talking seven, eight years ago. Yeah. And this is the economic side. If you take inflation into account, this is probably like whatever twelve hundred now. Yeah. Um, there was another company, but I thought, like, I can do this better also, which. Yeah. Um, also, can I really do it better? Different things. I wanted to understand the difference between building and being responsible for digital products, where you look at product strategy, you’re able to test things easier, um, than with physical products. And in the end, I worked with an industrial designer, got some surfboard racks, built, um, and had them built in China bamboo. So that’s a bit more sustainable from a wood perspective. Yep. Not talking about shipping and stuff. Yeah. Um, but yeah, had that idea of like, okay, I’m taking the idea from Ikea. Flat packs. Ship them straight to customers. Um, and it worked okay. I mean, I spent my own money, invested my own money, but I learned so much on the way. Like, before importing them, I get asked, so where’s your fumigation certificate? Like, what’s your fumigation certificate? Applying this back to, like, product and I and everything I like to test because all this knowledge together will help me make better strategic decisions, um, that that influence the product and then ultimately the bottom line of a company. Yeah, right. And did you what was the lessons you had from uh, I guess, you know, it was such a niche thing selling, I guess, out of China, these bamboo boards, which probably people have a very opinion, particularly when they’re buying boards around what type of boards they’re. But you, you I mean, you ended up selling over a thousand. Yes. Um, from a what did you learn from selling things online in that digital environment that you’ve been able to carry over into, I guess, how you position yourself as a product owner now. Yeah. Interesting question. I think one of the things I’ve learned is always look at the bottom line, because if I would have paid myself a salary, I, you know, I wouldn’t have worked as a startup, right? Like, there’s no salaries for startup people and expect the unexpected. Just just to give you an idea. Um, I get all these boards on, like, pallets. Where do I store them? I thought I’m going to store them in the garage of that shared house, but all of a sudden it takes up like thirty percent of the garage. Uh, you know, like, I haven’t thought about this before. And taking this, this experience of, like, think about the unexpected. Be prepared, um, think outside of the box and go from there. And also have a good network of people. A friend of mine, he has a surfboard shop, so he was able to help me understand how the whole freight system works. I had no idea. Right. Like try and import like a container full of stuff into Australia. Um, yeah. And taking that into the digital world, it it made me understand working with different stakeholders. Again, you need to have that understanding of what is important for them, but also from a product point of view. If I think this works and this is a cool product, doesn’t mean everyone else likes it. And even if everyone else likes it, it’s the price point, the right thing and then turn it back into AI. This is where I is cool. I’m building something right now called Auction Buddy where I don’t have a designer, I don’t have a software developer. I have no one else but myself right now because I’m building a prototype and be able to test it and then pivot quickly. Yeah, because digital is obviously different in physical. In AI helps me to be quite fast, yet on a very high professional level in terms of how the product looks, what it does. Um, and therefore I’m able to focus on the important things like you’ve gone from, I guess, like selling these racks, selling these surfboards, but like going through then the health industry you worked in medical director during the Covid pandemic, which is incredible. And they were responsible for, I guess, bringing in a lot of telehealth support for businesses in that time. How did you find that sort of, I guess, what was going on at the time versus the work you were having to do? Because I guess there was a lot of pressure. There was a lot of people who were a lot in need and a lot of fear that was in the market and this business trying to bring in a solution for these people in a time of time of need. How did you find that experience? Um, incredibly beneficial for my future career. Yeah. However, it was obviously extremely stressful. We had, I think medical director had like forty seven percent Percent market share of patient management systems for GPS in Australia. Roughly. Don’t quote me on this, but I’m quite a big amount of or a large amount of GPS would rely on it. And when you get told we need to build things because we don’t know if people otherwise die because they have to then go physically to a doctor, infect people or whatever. Um, it was a lot of pressure. Um, but we had an incredible team around us. So it’s not just me, obviously, and everyone kind of knew the direction. And this was more than just a job at that point. It was this helps people. And back then nobody knew what’s going to happen. I mean, I think we started in like February, March or something just before we went into official lockdown. And yeah, that, that that was an incredible time. I it’s going to sound weird, but I kind of like took a lot of positive things from it. As in, if you work in a team, work into the same direction and you have a purpose as in your product has a purpose. There’s so much more energy to build something quick, yet very useful, because of course you can’t make mistakes and a positive purpose, right? As well, of course. Yes. Purpose in the sense of it’s benefiting. Yes, it benefits society. And of course there’s always the business side as well. Yeah. Of course. Um, yeah. That was why people profit. Yeah. And you know, like before the old discussion between working from home or going back to the office. Now, if you think about it, nobody really worked from home other than a day here and there. Yeah. And all of a sudden, people have to sit on their bed. They have their kids with them. Life got so chaotic, yet everyone was pulling in the right direction. And like, we built something together, which just means again, if if you believe in your product, if you believe in what you can build, and if you have a good network and people that work with you and you work with, you can achieve some amazing things that that that’s basically my main takeaway from me. What, um, what has that given you then transitioning into now, starting your own business and also building your own products because you got be innovations? Yeah. Um, you’re in consultancy where you’re providing the support and consultancy to people, particularly with AI. Um, as a leading strategy point. How have you found that has guided you into where you are now? Um, I think it’s not just the work at Medicaldirector, but I’ve worked in a lot of different industries. I’ve worked in blockchain early on, um, for probably three years. Um, I worked in health tech. Obviously. I’ve worked in, in direct carrier billing as in payment. I worked in big data. Um, and all these things kind of like helped me to understand Different aspects of product building strategy. What to focus on. Also, and this ties back probably to medical director make hard decisions on what to focus on versus what’s not that important, right? Ignore all the shiny things. If you don’t do this thing like you know, are you going to survive? Is the product you go going to be successful? Yeah. And I worked for a lot of startups and scale ups, some successful. That sold for quite a nice amount of money. Um, I was just employed. Yeah. Um, and others renegotiate. Renegotiate? Yeah. Like, that’s that’s the thing, right? Like, some were very successful. Some weren’t. I was, um, in one startup. It was the first hire ever. And other companies were had like fifteen, twenty people. But I was the first product hire trying to all of a sudden taking a very technical team and building a more product led culture and strategy. All this helped me to understand what’s important from basically zero to, you know, one hundred. So to speak. And yeah, that combined with I always like to build stuff and experiment. That’s what led me through it. And funny enough, just to finish, I didn’t really plan to start my own strategy business consulting company, but I got approached by a company to do some work for them. Product transition, if you will. And yeah, that just led one thing led to another. They were very happy with my work. I’m like, this could lead to something because again, it ties into what I like to do. You elevating a product, you looking at a specific problem or an overall problem and bringing it in this experience from different industries, software engineering background, physical products, digital products, all these different things, and then basically have all these ingredients and make a cake, so to speak. Yeah, it’s it’s perfect. I like it. Tell tell me about BD innovations. like what is it that you guys are solving for? For people and for businesses, I guess. Sure, it’s a range of different things. One is more looking at strategy in terms of how can you. Either build products in you early on as a startup and prioritize and focus on the right things? Or how can you strategically change your product focus? How does the market look right now? What’s your potential user base? How can you monetize it? Just the overall strategy of building or elevating products. And the other thing is looking at things like product transition. You have too many products. You have, um, you know, a vendor you work with that’s not the best to work with and you don’t know how to basically get things back on track, as well as building MVPs with AI to bring this back. Yeah. Um, so that when you have ideas, you don’t need to occupy your current team with just experiments, and you bring in someone from the outside that has has, you know, has a fresh set of mind or like a fresh mind, so to speak. Um, yeah, that’s that’s pretty cool. I love it. I guess it’s it’s great. I mean, it’s it’s what the market is needing right now. And I think we’re seeing a lot of businesses popping up all over the place, as well as large enterprises who are going through these big product changes right now. The impact driven by AI, even even driven by market needs and change in economics, um, around the globe, they are constantly trying to figure out how to adapt into this new environment that is rapidly growing around them. And there are a lot of them are suffering and the opportunity is there. It’s ripe. Yeah. But, you know, then the question is, how could they be pivoting faster to adapt with what’s going on, even with people like us supporting them. So I guess. Yeah. How do you see? What do you see as the pains that they’re suffering for the most? And how do they overcome those? Um, generally speaking, I think the biggest pain is that if you are an established business, it doesn’t matter if it’s small, medium, big, you, everyone in the environment or most people in your environment has a specific thinking, specific mindset. Yeah. Right. Because if you work with something day in and day out, you don’t have the time to look at this from, you know, like the ten thousand feet outside view. Yeah. Um, you also might be very industry specific in terms of your thinking. Um, but someone from the outside can bring in ideas to look at things that have worked for other industries or have worked in different environments. That’s one thing. The other thing is, I think there are two types of businesses. one that are very afraid of AI, and the other one is that really, really wants to use AI for everything. Mhm. I strongly believe there’s probably something in between where identify your biggest pain points and see if that’s something where AI can help you solving them. But because the biggest pain points in most cases also means a lot of risk. Do it in a call it R&D fashion as in just an easy example, let’s say your customer service team is overwhelmed with repetitive questions. Yep. And yes, this is an easy example. Their solutions are it’s common. It’s quite a common example right? Especially with if you’re not keeping up with what’s going on, there is always constant complaints coming in from your customers. Fix this I want this, I need that, and that’s it, right? Like how does the customer service team right now? Um, get their own knowledge. If you can use AI and train an LLM, as in a large language model with a data set that’s specific to your company, you can basically help this customer service team to get knowledge from every system in your business, from whatever software engineers document, what you know, what what customers, um, say to salespeople. Yeah, there’s I think it’s called Amazon. Q it’s kind of like an internal chatbot that resembles to this. And I’ve just gone through this yesterday where I think AI, at the end of the day, is a tool to take away repetitive tasks or help you look at data in a way you would usually not be able to, as in connecting A, B, and C together. And that’s something that’s incredibly important for businesses. But you also need to be mindful that if you pivot and you don’t do it right, what happens? Right? Like, what’s the impact of it? And that’s why I’m also not a big fan of like, let’s just fire everyone and AI will do the job. Yes. And that’s something that we’re seeing more and more. Um, there are people, businesses, organizations, particularly large corporates who are getting rid of product teams, UX teams, design teams and attempting to replace them with AI with gigantic, you know, technologies. Um, is this something obviously, it’s something you’re seeing is like, what’s your view? And like, why shouldn’t they be doing this? How is human in the loop such an important role as well as you as a product person or UX person, even upskilling yourself in AI? Yeah. Well, first of all, I don’t think AI would go away. Yeah. Um, also, everything that I’m saying right now might not be relevant, might be not relevant in like six months or twelve months because things change so rapidly. It is. But if we take today A kind of for the next six months. I think the change is that you might not need as many people in your organization and specifically, unfortunately, more in the junior level. Um, but you still need experts to use AI more as an assistant, so to speak, right? Like, I always see AI tools as your junior that comes right off out of uni. Yeah, they are very promising with what they can do. Um, they have an amazing skill set. They will have very brilliant moments in terms of what they produce, but because they don’t have that life experience, um, unfortunately, sometimes you need to keep an eye on things and basically need to question everything that gets delivered. And if you look at this. If you look at this from like with AI, I think you you de-risk a lot because AI can produce quite a lot of slop if you don’t keep an eye on it. And businesses need to keep this in mind if and when they might want to reduce their workforce. There’s also something that if you use AI tools every day and just auction buddy, I’m building it. Um, I use for example, v0 for my front end development. If you use V0 for a while, for different MVP’s, for different clickable prototypes, for different industries, you kind of start to see a pattern of it’s always a square box, it’s always this. And that’s where like a human element from a design UX perspective could change that with the help of AI and train it in a different way. And so, long story short, I think people entering the market, they will have a more difficult because there will be the need for less. Look at my product. I don’t have a designer, no software developer, but I’m building everything for a usable prototype that I can use to see if there’s some traction. Right? Yeah. Um, that’s easily like three, four, five people that usually I would have needed to hire and pay for, but also people in a more senior environment. And I personally think even up to executives, you need to understand how it works. And if you understand this, you’ll be able to strategically position your business in a way that you’re going to be successful and you’re going to be ahead of the curve. If you don’t, you might not use it in the right way or you don’t use it at all. And that’s where you fall behind. So you’ve got like, um, things coming out from the, you know, the founders of Canva, founders of Atlassian, saying that, you know, we’re not letting go of these people because of the impacts of AI. We’re letting them go because of the changing times, the increased demand and needs. We’ve been able to automate a lot of flows that aren’t to do with AI, just specifically with the technologies generally that we’re implementing. Um, but on the flip side, you have, you know, founders of businesses like, um, uh, Shopify who are coming out making reports going, we’re not going to hire people unless you can prove to me that AI can’t do that job. Um, so how when you have, you know, particularly people who are coming in fresh to the market, um, how are they supposed to enter a market where they have such a tough time from an economics point of view, and at the same time, others saying AI can do your job. Like, how do they make themselves relevant, particularly in product? The statement I think the CEO of Shopify, that was three or six months ago. It was. Yes. This is like in AI terms, this is like a decade in anomaly, right? So so it would be interesting to see how he sees this right now. Um, I also think reading between the lines, it’s probably more as in everyone in the organization, you better learn how AI works. So you like ahead of the curve and we have the best talent possible. Yes, there are certain tasks that AI can do and you can replace a human. And this is the second part of the question. Um, in terms of how do younger people probably prepare themselves for the market? I think a just understand things change every single second day. And I’ve seen this in blockchain and crypto. You wake up and something changed overnight. Regulatory changes, whatever and you need to pivot. Yeah that is crazy sometimes and that can be daunting. But at the same time it also means if you’re able to pivot, you think differently. Because every problem in life and in business, you need to pivot in order to stay successful. So you learn something out of it very much. And the second part of it is, I think, experiment, if, you know, fingers crossed, maybe somebody gets successful and I need to and can will be able to hire some people. I would hire people that use AI. And when I say you say, show me what you’ve built in your private time. It doesn’t have to be pretty. It doesn’t have to work. But show me that you have interest because I, at this point is still a junior assistant. Still needs to understand how it works. There are people saying, oh, you don’t need to understand how prompting works anymore because there are tools that can prompt for you. That is correct. But I want people still to understand how to prompt, because that structure makes a world of difference in the results. And if you know this, you can then, you know, like basically upskill yourself. So if everyone built as much as you can, it’s the idea of, you know, as technologists ourselves, particularly product people, UX, that all that strategic technology and digital. Our role is to stay ahead of what is going on so we can understand how the product needs to evolve and innovate. And if we’re not staying ahead of the curve and what’s happening in AI, we’re making ourselves irrelevant. Essentially, half of the work I’m doing wouldn’t be able to do exactly if I wouldn’t use AI. And also one thing is, I think the lines start to blur more and more, as in human design. But that doesn’t mean that you’re not a product person, because AI helps you to kind of like be a bit more of a product person. I’m a product, but doesn’t mean I’m not a software engineer to a certain degree, because AI helps me to do that work, right? So it’s it’s blurring the line. And it’s interesting that there’s like one of the things I’ve seen you talk about is that cross section between, um, you know, the need for structured delivery or structured work, but also the intersection of creativity involved in that. Um, how do you see that working, particularly in the dawn of AI, where there’s a lot of question around the creativity element? Um, I for one, one of the biggest areas of creativity that I see the most when it comes to running any of these type of processes is, is the different roles that people can play in the development. So whether you’re a finance person, you’re a product person or you’re a CEO or you know, you’re someone who’s just started that difference. And diversity brings so much creativity to the delivery of any kind of process and project. And now, with AI on top, that’s completely changing, but also kind of leveling the field with that mentality and that creative element. How are you seeing those two intersections? I think creativity lies in human. Creativity is something that AI cannot really do right now. The creativity that AI does is based on what you want it to do. And when I say you, I mean like what it got trained on is in the large language models are trained on. Right. Yeah. Um, creativity for me is also being able to see things from different angles and connecting the dots. Which brings me back to a designer. Might see things more from a design UX point of view. This would be beautiful and users would love it. The I don’t know, the salesperson would probably think like, but this doesn’t make us money and the product person would be like, but this takes five months to build and this one only one month. So you bring in these different views and that together is creativity I think. AI. Perfect. I love that helps. Like I would love companies sometimes to build your call it like your rapid strike squad as in one designer, one product, one dev. Take the vision or the mission of the company and let them run free with AI and build something and see what it delivers. Right? And the other thing is just to to add to this, AI is only as creative as what we feed it with, as in data got trained on, and how we think and how you prompt and how you prompt. Of course. Right. Will it be relevant that things are creative and beautiful and perfect in five years time? Maybe not because nobody cares anymore. Maybe I don’t know, but right now it does. And that’s where Having different people in in your circle of friends, different demographics, different mindset, different everything as well as in your professional life makes a difference. Which brings us back to networking. Think outside of the box. Yeah. Awesome. That was that was really well said. I liked that a lot too. That just the creative element of that diversity thing is such an important piece for me. Whenever I run any of these product roles, whenever I run a project, whenever I help customers develop startups, develop something. Diversity is always a crucial part for me, and I think that was well summarized. Thanks. Um, obviously in practice, um, I want to touch on that prompting piece that you mentioned. As we as we dive into that, there’s a lot of, I guess, naivety and how we structure the prompts that or how people who are inexperienced structure prompts. Um, and you’ve come out, we had a chat about this previously around the importance of that objective method, components and style and how you structure that to get the best outcome. So we’re touching on that creativity element. How do you see prompting being such an important piece of the output that you need it to produce? I got to be bold and say prompting is ninety percent of what quality of result you will get. Yeah. Um, like I said in the beginning, I’ve been using ChatGPT the way I would use Google, you know, hey, can you build me a website to do email input or whatever? Nowadays what I’ve learned is talk to AI like a machine. Format in a structured way. Yeah, but also I split my prompts into three different components. One is like the pre work where I give it background information, where I explain things, reference to previous work, all these kind of things. Um, and then ask AI to come back with what it understood, what, what the potential outcome would be if this would be used to implement a new feature functionality. Whatever. What does that mean to risk? Ask me questions. So it’s a two way street for me, right? Like, we ask AI a lot of questions, but I always say, hey, what did you understand? What questions would you need to ask if your role was to be a UX designer, a software engineer? So give it a role. The result I’m getting from this first prompt will then help me understand how AI thinks, based on what I have been given in terms of information, and then be able to challenge it or pivot it before I implement something that breaks, then I do the implementation prompt itself and now implement it. Make sure you follow XYZ rules. Make sure you don’t touch this. Remember last time we had you know X problem? Remember it’s for this customer to the point. And yes you can outsource this into like raw files. Like this is a mobile first application. So seventy percent of users will use mobile first. How does that impact your coding structure? Whatever. Once this is done, the third and last problem is what have we not AI? But what have we learned from it? As in, should I have prompted differently? What has I learned in it? And that will be then documented in a rules file like for auction. But I think my rules file is now three pages long. Um, and I have multiple files, but it basically helps me to set rules for specific projects for a specific prompt references. So I don’t need to type it every time, but it’s the prompting itself takes the most time, and sometimes I fall back into how it’s going to be. Right. Yeah. And then that’s where things go south. So prompt structure prepare. Execute. Learn. Nice. Touched on a couple of times your your auction platform that you’re building. Tell me about this that sure. Because it sounds really exciting. What you’ve uh what you’ve been building over the last and hopefully by the time this episode is out, it’ll be it’ll be launched and ready to be testing in the market? Yeah. Auction. If anyone wants to hear first. Yes. Um, basically, again, the background of creativity and always looking at things from a product perspective, what could I build and how could you monetize it at the end of the day, how could it help users? And the idea is the property market, residential property market in Australia is very much focused on sellers. Um, except from buyers agents, you don’t really have anyone that supports the buyer upfront with informed information and that product. The idea is you, as a potential buyer, go to different properties that you are interested in. Inspect them, record information for you specifically of your interest, um, specifically for this property. And once you have gone to like three, four, five properties, you all of a sudden realize there’s a pattern, you know, whatever, this needs fifty thousand dollars repairs, but it’s One hundred thousand dollars cheaper than the one that doesn’t need the repairs. Um, so you get more and more data that are personalized and tailored to you. You then set a bidding strategy and come auction day. You equip with this property similar to XYZ and your tailored information. You know, um, you should bid up to X amount, but you also see live auction day. What does one hundred thousand dollars in price increase mean for your down payment, for your mortgage, repayment, for your yield and everything else? And it’s basically supporting the buyer, but with personalized information, because you go through these inspections and auctions and see information. And then obviously, yes, there’s an AI element. Yeah. Um, to help you make the right informed decisions because property in Australia is very emotion driven. A lot of people overspend. A lot of people Regret, probably especially in this market. I mean, you know, there’s obviously a lack of property that’s available and therefore that’s why people are overbidding because they’ve been to so many of these auctions, they’ve been struggling to get the place that they want. And then suddenly then it’s out of desperation. Hundreds of thousands more than exactly what they’re willing to stretch themselves. And the buyout. I mean, the buyer can either go to inspections and record it in an Excel sheet or somewhere, or use a buyer’s agent, which costs a lot of money. This is an alternative where it’s free, potentially some premium features. Again, I take a picture of a room and say, what would it cost to renovate this in a country house style, which medium to cheap furniture? And it can basically calculate this. And all of a sudden, you see, I have these five rooms that I want to renovate. It cost me an extra one hundred grand. This is cheaper than getting a fully renovated place. And then obviously, from a monetization point of view, I could then connect you to builders, to carpenters, to shops selling shares, whatever. Yeah. Um, yeah. And I’ve done the business case. I’ve done everything. I think there’s there’s I’ve done some market research. I had some people already testing it. Well, we’ll make sure to include some links on the show. Mate, that sounds really awesome because it’s definitely something that people are needing out there in this current market. Bastion. It has been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Any final words that you want to say or any. Um, no. Just anything you want to plug like around. Com.au give me some feedback. There will be a whitelist for the first two hundred and fifty five hundred people to have it for free for lifetime. Other than that, just thanks for having me. This is amazing. I’ve been a pleasure. Thanks. Thank you buddy. Cheers, everyone. Thank you very much. Like subscribe and we’ll see you in the next episode.